tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post8555932113453338941..comments2023-10-03T11:41:21.191+01:00Comments on The Truth About Lies: PerfectionismJim Murdochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-2312409040541820062011-11-13T19:57:15.296+00:002011-11-13T19:57:15.296+00:00Glad to be of assistance, Ken.Glad to be of assistance, <b>Ken</b>.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-46546866821327052172011-11-13T14:35:41.363+00:002011-11-13T14:35:41.363+00:00There are quite a number of useful things for me i...There are quite a number of useful things for me in this post. Ta.Ken Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07775956557261111127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-74069153108283198812011-11-12T08:56:02.866+00:002011-11-12T08:56:02.866+00:00Well ok. You've got me there Jim. Can I get so...Well ok. You've got me there Jim. Can I get something perfect out of something imperfect if I take it out of its original context? :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-6237561356004839772011-11-11T10:58:44.733+00:002011-11-11T10:58:44.733+00:00I’m not sure, McGuire, that I’d think a poem that ...I’m not sure, <b>McGuire</b>, that I’d think a poem that had me reaching for some reference work to understand it would be my definition of a perfect poem. For me a perfect poem is one that makes complete sense to me, not necessarily on first reading but certainly soon thereafter. But just because that poem is perfect for me that doesn’t necessarily mean that it will do anything for anyone else. It’s like the piece of music that makes your hairs stand on end and yet the person next to you is saying, “Well, it’s nice, but…”<br /><br />It’s all well and good spending twenty years working on a book of poems – hell, look at Whitman who basically spent his whole life perfecting one book of poetry – but then there are writers like Bukowski who just churned the stuff out and there is a freshness to that that you lose if you’re not careful with constant fiddling.<br /><br />There is another thing about perfection. Let’s say you are handed the perfect poem or the perfect glass of wine or the perfect BLT sandwich – who but another perfect person is going to appreciate it for what it is? I’m an imperfect person and I write for other imperfect people. I wish I wasn’t. I wish they weren’t. But you work with what you’ve got.<br /><br />And, <b>Maekisto</b>, I think you’ve misread me there but I think you know you’ve misread me. <br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-14863838311653388272011-11-11T09:32:17.284+00:002011-11-11T09:32:17.284+00:00Hold on! Did you say that absolute perfection woul...Hold on! Did you say that absolute perfection would be "God assuming you believe in him"? Absolute perfection is an all-assuming God? Brilliant Jim!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-82970292435011370882011-11-10T19:58:10.207+00:002011-11-10T19:58:10.207+00:00I am not a perfectionist. I could become one. I am...I am not a perfectionist. I could become one. I am reading Mick Imlah right now and he spent 20 years working on his last book of poetry. It's technically brilliant. I look at my poems after reading it and think, what flushable nose rags they are, what crushed napkin table clearing. <br /><br />Yet, I love a perfection poem, a poem that makes you reach for the dictionary, reach for the encylowikipedia etc ,as much as I love the easy, messy, conversational poetry of that horror-child 'modernity'. <br /><br />My inner editor needs cultivating. I could do with a doze of your perfectionism, Jim. More discipline. I've been harping on about it for years. I may yet harness it. <br /><br />Yours,<br />imperficly,<br />Quagmire.McGuirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095242258892600138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-44024379073899093722011-11-10T14:06:45.440+00:002011-11-10T14:06:45.440+00:00Mari, nice to see a new name in the comments box; ...<b>Mari</b>, nice to see a new name in the comments box; hope you stick around. I do know what you mean about comments. I treat them like mini-articles but then a lot of my comments end up being as long as the articles I’m commenting on; laconic I am not but, hell, after reading this article you know that. Thank you, anyway, for your well-crafted response.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-24538832640887129372011-11-10T12:47:55.330+00:002011-11-10T12:47:55.330+00:00Excellent and well-researched article, Jim. I want...Excellent and well-researched article, Jim. I want you to know I crafted and tossed three earlier responses to it before settling on this one. Thanks for the details.<br /><br /> Peace, MariAging Opheliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14360783709169946256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-35501769333535875312011-11-10T09:22:00.779+00:002011-11-10T09:22:00.779+00:00The thing is, Art, when I think about the tea cere...The thing is, <b>Art</b>, when I think about the tea ceremony what comes to mind <i>is</i> perfection or at least precision; things have to be performed in a certain way or the ritual will be invalid or whatever. Someone posted an article yesterday talking about famous last words and asking us to submit ours. Without not much thought I wrote, “You know what? None of this matters.” It’s really the last thing a person like me would say because everything matters to me – I like everything I do to matter – but I’d like to think by the time I get round to dying that I’ll be past all that. I’m better than I used to be, that’s for sure, but I have some way to go yet.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-49345352674293671122011-11-09T14:51:37.142+00:002011-11-09T14:51:37.142+00:00As you know I'm a recovering perfectionist, an...As you know I'm a recovering perfectionist, and have written about it before on my own blog. I joked that there's a 12-step group for perfectionists, like alcoholics, but the joke is half-true of course. We have a virtual meeting going on here, it seems, as so many writers are often perfectionists recovering in one way or another from the blocks created by "best is the enemy of better." <br /><br />One of the ways that I got past perfectionism was by studying the Japanese artistic and craft aesthetic of wabi-sabi. You see it in the tea ceremony, in the tools and the building; in irregularities and imperfections in natural objects; in an aesthetic of materials worn unevenly by time and weather. It's both very homey and plain, and also exquisitely beautiful in its remembrance of the ephemeral nature of all things. It helps me to not be a perfectionist when I remind myself that in 100 years very little of this will matter, or be remembered. Perspective of time.<br /><br />I learned long ago that "good enough" was often better than "perfect," in my art-making, for two reasons. "Good enough" was often very good, and "perfect" only kept things from being finished. With "good enough" you go on to the next project, and who knows, that next time you work on something it might come out better, or at least closer to perfect.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-54655148033050734342011-11-09T13:08:56.265+00:002011-11-09T13:08:56.265+00:00Gwilym, I see where you’re coming from here. The f...<b>Gwilym</b>, I see where you’re coming from here. The first thing that comes to mind is that, as far as people are concerned, there has to be a qualitative difference between doing the right thing because you believe it is the right thing and doing the right thing because you are worried what the consequences will be if you don’t. That’s what bothered me about my efforts to be a Christian. There were things that I was doing that I was only doing because I had been told that these were necessary requirements; likewise with the things I abstained from. So, if one was to only judge me by my actions I was a ‘perfect’ Christian but the fact is I was nothing of the sort. I imagine the same goes in the countries you mentioned, people doing what others have decided is ‘right’ at that time but without any real conviction. <br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-36232367070841433012011-11-09T09:11:50.047+00:002011-11-09T09:11:50.047+00:00Jim, Maybe we can only come close to finding the &...Jim, Maybe we can only come close to finding the "perfect person" in the world's "closed" and/or "perfect societies". Most notoriously there were those in Germany who "worked towards the Leader". I can imagine there are such "perfect persons" nowadays in N Korea for example. The "perfect person" must be able to march in step with his comrades. And always be ready to do so. He will have read and digested the Leader's little book of instructions or failing that he always carry it in his pocket. He will be educated in the ways of perfectionism from cradle to grave. When he dies it will be said of him that he was always a "perfect person".Gwil Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03305768121713053837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-41325324292827358042011-11-08T18:54:45.309+00:002011-11-08T18:54:45.309+00:00It seems then, Rachna, that this was the perfect p...It seems then, <b>Rachna</b>, that this was the perfect post for you. We all go through the same thing as you’re going through. When I think about how much effort goes into every submission I make because no two sites/mags/whatevers will accept the thing the same way. They should all get together and standardise the whole shebang. Would make everyone’s life so much easier.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-50124832622763092782011-11-08T15:29:46.590+00:002011-11-08T15:29:46.590+00:00You know, Jim, striving for perfection in every sp...You know, Jim, striving for perfection in every sphere is taking its toll on us. Write that perfect book: hook, tension and climax with a great Protagonist and Antagonist. Write that perfect query letter and synopsis. At the moment I hate the very mention of the word perfect.Rachna Chhabriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900999965919504282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-48868780618767717172011-11-08T13:14:57.169+00:002011-11-08T13:14:57.169+00:00Glenn, I recognise the poem – didn’t know who Maur...<b>Glenn</b>, I recognise the poem – didn’t know who Maureen Hurley was, mind – but I must be missing something because I don’t see what this has to do with perfection.<br /><br /><b>Tim</b> - good question. Not sure I have an answer there. Gerald Murnane jumps to mind. I pottered around with the first sentence to my first novel for five years before I settled on a shape that I thought I could live with and, looking back on the very first draft of the thing, do you know what? It was <i>exactly</i> the same as the one I wrote after thinking about it for twenty seconds. What a waste of time.<br /><br />Yes, <b>Dave</b>, exactly. I think of perfection in much the same way as I think about truth. There is also the point that something could be more perfect than it needs to be. A door stop made out of granite would work every bit as good as one made out of solid gold. And one made out of wood or plastic would be perfect enough.<br /><br />And, <b>Marion</b>… <i>that</i> I can relate to, completely. The thing is, after all these years, I’m no longer pleased with a poem that will do. I wrote one this morning. It’ll do. It says what I intended it to say. But it doesn’t really do much for me. I’ll leave it lying around in my poetry folder for a while, pick it up, put it down and see if I can see something in it worth doing something with. Never been very good at writing my way out of crap. Once the crap starts flowing – horrible image, sorry about that – I usually give up and do something more interesting instead. It’s one of the reasons I could never do NaNoWriMo. I’d write a page and want to go back and edit it there and then and then think about it for a week before I wrote the next one.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-13828456511754136412011-11-07T14:01:19.771+00:002011-11-07T14:01:19.771+00:00I read a while back somewhere something along the ...I read a while back somewhere something along the lines of: it's not that you have writer's block it's that your not willing to write a bad poem. I think there's a large element of truth in that. I find it hard to write a line without the inner editor getting in the way. As if I was all my poems to arrive perfectly by building on each perfect line. But it doesn't work that way, sometimes you have to write your way out of the crap first and that's what's really hard to do.Marion McCreadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04657757253873577465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-60832027282276664842011-11-07T12:27:55.353+00:002011-11-07T12:27:55.353+00:00Now it's my turn: your talk of the jelly mould...Now it's my turn: your talk of the jelly mould passing on its imperfections inevitably made me think of Larkin and "This be the Verse"!<br /><br />What did strike me, though, when considering the matter of Absolute Perfection was the possibility of there being a range of perfections rather than a single scale. An artefact (or a person) might be put to conflicting uses and not be perfect for them both, but still perfect in one context. Or maybe I'm splitting hairs...<br /><br />For such a short post you covered a surprising amount of ground. Very thought-provoking.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-80676666204076733182011-11-07T12:22:17.186+00:002011-11-07T12:22:17.186+00:00So who are the literary perfectionists? Flaubert? ...So who are the literary perfectionists? Flaubert? Elizabeth Bishop? Ian Hamilton? Or maybe they're inevitably unknown. At the workshop I go to there are sometimes people who keep trying to perfect chapter 1 of their novel rather than trying to complete the 1st draft - an example, I think, of "best is the enemy of better"Tim Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00578925224900533603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-54454814118472834782011-11-06T23:43:30.660+00:002011-11-06T23:43:30.660+00:00It's been many years since I heard Maureen Hur...It's been many years since I heard Maureen Hurley read her poem so I may have some of it a little off:<br /><br />Thumb,<br />forgive me,<br />the hammer was meant<br />for another kind <br />of nail.Glenn Ingersollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10674475308395975995noreply@blogger.com