tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post5288036715768607470..comments2023-10-03T11:41:21.191+01:00Comments on The Truth About Lies: The Sorrows of Young WertherJim Murdochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-54112331481011394232014-09-23T00:23:59.545+01:002014-09-23T00:23:59.545+01:00Parodies are a hard act to pull off I find, Jonath...Parodies are a hard act to pull off I find, <b>Jonathan</b>, but if the reviews on Amazon are to be believed—oh, the world we live in when we feel the need to question such things—it sounds as if Zelazny might’ve pulled it off. Thanks for letting me know about it.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-43971209959615743472014-09-18T20:19:01.741+01:002014-09-18T20:19:01.741+01:00Recently there was a parody of "The Sorrows o...Recently there was a parody of "The Sorrows of Young Werther" that published. In the new version, "The Sorrows of Young Mike" by John Zelazny, the protagonist is infatuated with Werther but lost and in love with multiple women as he travels around the world with a copy of his favorite book. It is an interesting modern retelling.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04537034565788059803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-86781010129895445932013-09-01T11:33:42.672+01:002013-09-01T11:33:42.672+01:00As you say, x, this was my opinion and you’re equa...As you say, <b>x</b>, this was my opinion and you’re equally entitled to yours besides it’s been a while since I read this book and I’d really have to read it again to respond properly to you. We Scots don’t have much time for mopers which is what we’d regard Werther as and if we did encounter someone like him our answer would be something along the lines of, “Get over yourself already.” I’m an emotional sort myself—hell, I’m a poet; we’re supposed to be—but I can’t be bothered with those fae individuals who frankly milk it which, chucking my reviewer’s hat to the side for the moment, I don’t have much time for. Life’s too short as it is. Maybe this is me being a man in my fifties who’s forgotten what it was like to be a teenager. I know when I reread <i>The Catcher in the Rye</i> a few years back I had a lot less patience for poor Holden Caulfield too. Thanks for your comment though.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-23590369894249225332013-08-29T18:58:56.249+01:002013-08-29T18:58:56.249+01:00Last night I read this classic novel for the first...Last night I read this classic novel for the first time. Near the end I too flipped quickly through the Ossian translation pages to, as you say, get back to the story. And I as well found it to be a real page-turner. <br /><br />But I must disagree with your observation and opinion, namely: "The reason that Werther kills himself is actually a reasoned decision. Of course his reasoning is flawed – suicide is not the answer – but his reasoning is interesting."<br /><br />I think Werther's reasoning was spot on. He writings had already demonstrated that he was able to see through the delusion that sustains the average person, and that he recognized that life is mainly a river of hardship and misery, punctuated too infrequently with all-too-brief islands of happiness. And thus he was able to recognize that for himself there was to be no cure from his obsession with and love for Charlotte. <br /><br />What else could he do but take matters into his own hands and choose his time and instrument of departure from this miserable life? He recognized that his ability to cope with the suffering in his life had finally and permanently been exceeded. What else to do but call it quits, and put himself out of his misery? <br /><br />I applaud Werther for his decision, and his bravery. I know most people think people who act as Werther did are cowards. But I think those who reach the point in their ovwn lives that Werther did in his, but who are unwillinging to effect an exit of their own timing and choosing, are the cowards.<br /><br />I hope I have the strength to overcome societal convention and evolution-driven impulses to the contrary and, as Werther did, to be brave enough to make my own exit when I recognize that the time has come, when the tipping point has been reached and the level of suffering in my own life has finally exceeded my ability and the resources available to me to cope with it.xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02946998995502135776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-56136440989950964462012-08-26T19:13:19.235+01:002012-08-26T19:13:19.235+01:00Another thought about Werther. Earlier I suggeste...Another thought about Werther. Earlier I suggested pairing Werther with FATHERS AND SONS, another historic read. After Werther my immediate response was, "Nobody would get away with writing like that now." Later I remembered slogging through Franzen's FREEDOM. I think a fair argument could be made that FREEDOM is a modern Werther, filled with willful, self-destructive, self centered characters. It has the love triangle; it has the nature worship; it has the extended wringing of hands; it has the sub-rosa snobbery; it has the fateful crossing of the boundary; it even has something bordering on the epistolary mode. What it lacks is the artistic understanding that Goethe had: you don't need 500 pages to get the point across; you can't try to redeem the downward cycle in the last chapter.Weorchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16646681750705277009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-67566541099082173902010-11-09T13:10:36.815+00:002010-11-09T13:10:36.815+00:00I have to say, Marion, that Elective Affinities lo...I have to say, <b>Marion</b>, that <i>Elective Affinities</i> looks like it might be an interesting book to research too. <i>Anna Karenina</i> is just impossibly long. I know I’ll never read it. I’d just keep thinking, <i>I could have raed five other books by now.</i><br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-11517845710092916742010-11-09T12:54:05.279+00:002010-11-09T12:54:05.279+00:00I'd heard of it and the "Werther effect&q...I'd heard of it and the "Werther effect" but I haven't read it. The only Goethe I've read is Elective Affinities which I loved. Anna Karenina is one of my fav books so I quite like a good obsessive love story / tragedy! Great intro and background.Marion McCreadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04657757253873577465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-61124125940630111512010-11-09T11:53:37.423+00:002010-11-09T11:53:37.423+00:00I leant my copy of Catcher in the Rye to someone a...I leant my copy of <i>Catcher in the Rye</i> to someone about fifteen years ago, <b>Dave</b>, and never got it back. That was the last time I read it, just before I handed it over. I keep meaning to buy another copy. Had I the time I would have and made the post even longer than this turned out, a proper comparison of the two works. It’s always interesting looking back at things that struck a chord with the public – The Beatles, for example – and seeing how they were very much a product of their time. That’s why I’m all in favour of modern adaptations of Shakespeare. I remember seeing one on the TV called <i>Hail Caesar</i>, an adaptation of <i>Julius Caesar</i>, and suddenly the play made sense to me. I think someone needs to rework <i>Werther</i> for the 21st century. I do believe the book is relevant but it’s hard to work up any real empathy for a guy who, by today’s standards, is nothing more than a woose. <br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-62460724551794663712010-11-09T10:46:03.534+00:002010-11-09T10:46:03.534+00:00I think Dick speaks for me, too. You grabbed my in...I think Dick speaks for me, too. You grabbed my interest initially because I recently acquired (as a gift) a copy of <i>Catcher in the Rye</i> which came with a <i>Routledge Guide</i>. I read <i>Catcher</i> way back but had forgotten much of it.<br /><br />I have to agree that anyone with a class project, or something of the sort, to get stuck into might do worse than getting stuck into your post first. It is impressive to say the least.<br /><br />I don't think I'm persuaded, but I have been known to change my mind upon reflection.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-62849296764508847982010-11-09T10:22:53.525+00:002010-11-09T10:22:53.525+00:00I was exactly the same, Jane. I basically thought,...I was exactly the same, <b>Jane</b>. I basically thought, I really ought to read some Goethe before I die. All I knew was that he had written <i>Faust</i> - which I hadn’t seen but the plot’s not new – and then the opportunity to read this came along. I have to say researching it was more interesting than reading it but if it had never been written I would never had had the opportunity to do the research. Who had any idea that merchandising went back far for instance?<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-26696537830823859082010-11-08T22:08:57.901+00:002010-11-08T22:08:57.901+00:00I feel like I’ve been under a rock as I haven’t he...I feel like I’ve been under a rock as I haven’t heard of this Goethe treasure, but it sounds like an interesting and timely (though it was written in the 1700s) read.Jane Kennedy Suttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12519340747761460017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-53080368085784548742010-11-08T12:57:00.424+00:002010-11-08T12:57:00.424+00:00You’re quite right, Dick. At that’s probably the m...You’re quite right, <b>Dick</b>. At that’s probably the major difference between <i>Werther</i> and <i>Catcher</i> although there were times when I wanted to give young Holden a slap too. I remember reading <i>Catcher in the Rye</i> as a young teenager and it had a huge effect on me. Looking at <i>Werther</i> as being the 18th century equivalent was what prompted this investigation; it was very much a book of its time. The book itself was an easier read than I expected, quite a light read actually, but I could no more relate to the hero here than I can now to Holden. I last read <i>Catcher in the Rye</i> about fifteen years ago and even then I wondered what captivated me so about it. On the other hand I watched the film of <i>Billy Liar</i> a couple of weeks back which I read at the same time as <i>Catcher</i> and I actually teared-up at the end – I must reread that one soon and the sequel too which I didn’t like at the time but maybe being older I’ll have more time for now.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-13253064456512854802010-11-08T11:00:13.628+00:002010-11-08T11:00:13.628+00:00Not even the full might of your heavy artillery be...Not even the full might of your heavy artillery being brought to bear on behalf of 'Werther', Jim (and this is a barrage par excellence) can persuade me to overcome fundamental distaste for the novel of obsessive love. Even in the wake of this most comprehensive of commentaries, I still want to give the boy a slap!<br /><br />What has been absent from the genre in my experience (and I devoured such tales in adolescence, from Gottfried von Eschenbach's 'Tristan' through 'Trollope's 'The Way We Live Now' to Turgenev's 'First Love') is humour and the wry and rueful self-analysis that comes with it. The more lambent the writing and the nobler the sentiments, the more I go into inverse proportion reaction and the most literary a reaction I can manage is: 'For Christ's sake, get a fucking grip!' And I'm afraid that Ian McEwen's 'Enduring Love' only served to compound the antipathy in sardonic late middle age.<br /><br />As regards Goethe's poor young protagonist, for all the excellence of this latest Truth of Lies monograph, Jim (and it is superb), I'll pass on the Eau de Werther cologne and settle for a bad case of decadent romantic OCD!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com