tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post1247809947977039350..comments2023-10-03T11:41:21.191+01:00Comments on The Truth About Lies: LaidlawJim Murdochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-92136832901629995952009-01-15T14:40:00.000+00:002009-01-15T14:40:00.000+00:00I think any genre can usefully be subdivided, if y...I think any genre can usefully be subdivided, if you've any interest in it. If you don't, it's not worth the bother.<BR/><BR/>If you hate science fiction, then the term SF works well enough as a general category of stuff to avoid. If you like an SF novel though, then it may be useful to subdivide a bit as there are tons of subgenres and liking one is no guarantee of liking another.<BR/><BR/>Serious crime fiction's a bit of a snotty term really, it implise other authors aren't taking their craft seriously which I'm sure they are. But I do think Laidlaw is part of a certain hardboiled/noir tradition which is a separate subgenre to that occupied by say detective fiction or historical crime. By serious I meant a novel with serious intent rather than one intended more as entertainment, but it's not a great term to use as it carries tons of other connotations.<BR/><BR/>Any implication that the hardboiled/noir stuff is better, or more advanced, than the cosy stuff (that's honestly the name of a sub-genre) is a reflection of my tastes, nothing more fundamental in the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-11429831309238897492009-01-14T19:47:00.000+00:002009-01-14T19:47:00.000+00:00My real problem, Max, is that I'm unfamiliar with ...My real problem, <B>Max</B>, is that I'm unfamiliar with the genre and have had to rely on what other people say. I've seen all the adaptations of the <I>Rebus</I> books for example but I know that they only pay lip service to the novels because my wife has read a lot of them. I also knew when I was reading <I>Laidlaw</I> that this was probably an atypical crime novel. I find it interesting that you differentiate between 'detective fiction' and 'serious crime fiction' and also, reading in between the lines, it looks as if entry into the 'serious crime fiction' is something that needs to be <I>earned</I>.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-32035668071459292802009-01-13T17:16:00.000+00:002009-01-13T17:16:00.000+00:00Chandler is an exceptional prose stylist, a tremen...Chandler is an exceptional prose stylist, a tremendous writer really.<BR/><BR/>The best crime fiction tends to be existentialist fiction. There's a concept in French noir that crime fiction should be moral fiction, a form of fiction through which one examines the individual and their place in society. That's very common too in much English language noir, as well as in some of the more hardboiled stuff like McIlvanney or Chandler.<BR/><BR/>Detective fiction can be fun, but it's rarely fiction with a moral purpose. Serious crime fiction very often does have a moral purpose, and often deals in very complex themes about the nature of mortality and our relationship with each other and our society.<BR/><BR/>Laidlaw to me isn't typical crime fiction of the sort that crams most bookstores (and which can be a lot of fun), but it is fairly typical of serious crime fiction in its concerns and approaches and I've no concern putting it in a genre with writers like David Peace, Derek Raymond, Raymond Chandler, Horace McCoy and so on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-54665747366525102742009-01-11T09:00:00.000+00:002009-01-11T09:00:00.000+00:00Well, I'm glad I've piqued your interest, Jena. Th...Well, I'm glad I've piqued your interest, <B>Jena</B>. The sections of Scottish dialect aren't quite as heavy as 'Aggie and Shuggie' so I don't think you'll struggle quite so much. <BR/><BR/>And, <B>Dick</B>, I've been the same. I've never even read an Agatha Christie but I've probably seen every dramatisaion that's been on the tele in my lifetime and a lot of them more than once. The same goes for all the Sherlock Holmes shows, Rebus, Wallander, Taggart, Midsomer Mysteries, Murdoch Mysteries <I>ad infinitum as nauseam</I> and maybe that's part of the reason I've never looked to the genre especially since there are so many other books that will never be filmed that I have yet to get round to.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-91182386333493176972009-01-11T08:37:00.000+00:002009-01-11T08:37:00.000+00:00For some reason that I've never really analysed, I...For some reason that I've never really analysed, I have never taken to the detective story. This exhaustive presentation motivates me to look again. Good points, well made, Jim!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-60736826422946439452009-01-11T03:53:00.000+00:002009-01-11T03:53:00.000+00:00I'm going to buy the book for sure and come back w...I'm going to buy the book for sure and come back when I've read it. Thanks for sharing.Jena Islehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609925272840089993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-60315844523294660432009-01-10T18:49:00.000+00:002009-01-10T18:49:00.000+00:00Yes, Ken, it's been years since I read Strange Loy...Yes, <B>Ken</B>, it's been years since I read <I>Strange Loyalties</I> too and I think it is the best of the three. It's also the only one written in the first person which gives you a very different perspective on the character.<BR/><BR/>The reason I chose to review that book was because of the focus on Glasgow. As I recall most of the action in <I>Strange Loyalties</I> takes place in Graithnock.<BR/><BR/>I saw all three of the <I>Wallander</I> shows and was very impressed by Kenneth Branagh's performance. I missed the Swedish episodes on BBC4 thinking they were just repeats but it would have been nice to make a comparison.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-79706476817952560152009-01-10T14:42:00.000+00:002009-01-10T14:42:00.000+00:00I read 'Strange Loyalties' years ago and intended ...I read 'Strange Loyalties' years ago and intended to read more because it was good. You encourage me to seek out Laidlaw and read it - I enjoy crime fiction in all shapes and forms. Rankin doesn't float my boat however although I respect him, my wife reads them all.<BR/><BR/>OT - We enjoyed the two-out-of-three Wallander adaptations on the BBC recently. it's the first thing I made a point of sitting down and watching, in a long time.Ken Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07775956557261111127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-16039106980907092802009-01-09T19:30:00.000+00:002009-01-09T19:30:00.000+00:00Thank you for that comment, Leon. I had a wee look...Thank you for that comment, <B>Leon</B>. I had a wee look at your own blog. Very thought-provoking.<BR/><BR/>And, <B>Art</B>, yes, it might be interesting to have a look at Chandler. He's been so caricatured that it might we worth seeing what he's like in his own words. As for <I>Laidlaw</I>, my wife read it and didn't like it. I think the problem there is that she has read so much by dyed-in-the-wool crime novelists and I'm not sure that <I>Laidlaw</I> stands up that well judged purely as a crime novel. It's always easy to stand on the shoulders of giants and that's what these writers have done. <I>Laidlaw</I> was innovative at the time. The reason I chose to review it for the Canongate website was that they were underlining the geography aspect and <I>Laidlaw</I> is a very Scottish (particularly Glaswegian) novel. The city is a major player in the book in the same way as I suspect Los Angeles would be in a Chandler novel.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-48381900161761633142009-01-09T14:55:00.000+00:002009-01-09T14:55:00.000+00:00If you liked these, you'd probably like Raymond Ch...If you liked these, you'd probably like Raymond Chandler. "The Long Goodbye" is an existential novel in just the way you describe "Laidlaw," technically a murder mystery, but in fact the crime novel is just a frame on which something much deeper is hung. I've read every one of Chandler's novels at least 4 times. I regularly go back to Chandler and re-read, every couple of years or so. It's perennial. Chandler's plots are not even that compelling, they're not as rigorous as some crime fiction—but then, the poetry of the language, and the characterizations, the observation of culture, that's what Chandler's about. You're right in your insight that crime fiction can be used as a novel-framework social commentary. That's what Chandler did, and did well. Don't trust your impression of Chandler on the movies that have been made from his novels; almost none of them are any good. With Chandler, it's also about the poetry of the prose.<BR/><BR/>I had a copy of "Laidlaw" once, as it looked interesting. But I couldn't get into it, or finish it, at the time. The circumstances had something to do with it. I was moving, I didn't have a lot of spare attention, I didn't have a lot of free time for reading and I wasn't focused on reading new books. I was purging a lot of my books before the move, and I needed to get rid of everything I needed absolutely need. On your recommendation, I'll give it another try. Your review indicates to me that I might well like it.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-22904263615994968312009-01-09T12:11:00.000+00:002009-01-09T12:11:00.000+00:00Lovely post and a lovely blog.Lovely post and a lovely blog.Leon1234https://www.blogger.com/profile/12707501065021550093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-6458337849210551872009-01-09T05:26:00.000+00:002009-01-09T05:26:00.000+00:00Thank you for that, Jasko, I do my best. Nothing I...Thank you for that, <B>Jasko</B>, I do my best. Nothing I hate mote than 200 word book reviews I have to say. I really hate I have to say, even though we're all guilty of it, of prejudging things based on very little evidence, i.e. I read a crime novel once and I hated it therefore I will hate all crime novels. I don't know if I hate crime novels. I've only read three and they were all by McIlvanney and I never really thought of them as crime novels. I suspect I'd enjoy Ian Rankin's work. I should read a few pages and see. I think Carrie's got at least a half a dozen by him. <BR/><BR/>And, <B>Rachel</B>, yes, <I>Weekend</I> - I have a copy which I pretty much gave up on too and then felt very guilty for doing so. I started it when my head was in a very bad place and I found concentrating on anything hard. I think the basic problem is that there are too many characters and McIlvanney doesn't pamper to the reader by saying, "Oh, it's such-and-such talking now and this is who they are in relation to everyone else again just in case you forgot." I refuse to believe it's a bad book and I will have a go at it again but maybe not for a while. It's not as if I'm short of books to read. I think I got about a dozen for Xmas.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-34155112567873593952009-01-08T21:32:00.000+00:002009-01-08T21:32:00.000+00:00I read 'Weekend' last year after hearing about it ...I read 'Weekend' last year after hearing about it on radio and was really disappointed. Why? I can't even remember...that's how much of an impression it left!<BR/>'Laidlaw' sounds more exciting - I will look out for it.Rachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-57605085923268790352009-01-08T19:50:00.000+00:002009-01-08T19:50:00.000+00:00The effort you have been putting in this review is...The effort you have been putting in this review is amazing (and not only in this one). By reading this post I got reminded about how it all started after all - with Poe and his crime stories that have evaluated to what we have now as the world literature. Which all leads to the conclusion that any of the literature genres in not to be underestimated in any case. For sure some novels look just like "crime stories" (for example Auster's New York Trilogy), but there is much more going on than from what is visible at first sight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-9676359713903230502009-01-08T18:46:00.000+00:002009-01-08T18:46:00.000+00:00Hi, Michelle, always happy to see an Australian ma...Hi, <B>Michelle</B>, always happy to see an Australian making a comment. For some reason I have a soft spot for Aussies (and Geordies – go figure). The nice thing about this book is that since its been around a while you'll be able to pick up a cheap copy no probs. If you like it you should know there are three books featuring Jack Laidlaw, <I>The Papers of Tony Veitch</I> and <I>Strange Loyalties</I> being the other two.<BR/><BR/>Not got round to your post yet, <B>Dave</B>, but I will. I've actually still got the one before it to read slow coach that I am. But you're perfectly right. When I first read it – I'd be nineteen at the time – although much of it impressed me even more passed me by. I really didn't appreciate it on many levels. I'm sure a lot of people read it, enjoyed it as a reasonable detective novel and never thought any more about it too. Hell, Dave, after writing this review I made <I>me</I> want to read the book again.<BR/><BR/><B>Max</B>, another new name, glad to see someone else who appreciates the book. I met McIlvanney at the time when he was doing a reading in one of the local libraries. You've probably seen him on TV and he's just like that in real life, a very down-to-earth bloke. I was a wee bit full of a sense of my own importance at the age I was then and gave him a hard time for turning his back on poetry. He took it on the chin and confided in me he had a new book in the works. Not seen much from him since mind.<BR/><BR/>And, <B>Andrew</B>, I'd be very interested to hear what you think of the book. You see I'm <I>not</I> a reader of crime fiction. I've only read three that I can remember and they're all McIlvanney's. My guess is that as a purely crime novel he's been well outdone by now. He uses the format of the crime novel for other purposes and it works.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-14506374256912497772009-01-08T18:15:00.000+00:002009-01-08T18:15:00.000+00:00love crime fiction. never read this novel. cant wa...love crime fiction. never read this novel. cant wait to get it. cheersThe Brokendown Barmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13729499535859152598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-41278103869620579062009-01-08T17:30:00.000+00:002009-01-08T17:30:00.000+00:00Tremendous review Jim, and of a work that deserves...Tremendous review Jim, and of a work that deserves the attention you give it.<BR/><BR/>I was hugely impressed with Laidlaw, the compassion of it, the anger to with the blighted opportunities of the girl and killer both. That and the sheer skill of the language.<BR/><BR/>It also has one of the most convincing scenes of intimidation I have ever read, when the local villain is threatened by a couple of boys in his own pub.<BR/><BR/>I think in part this, and even more The Papers of Tony Veitch, is in part a work of existentialist morality. We must care for each other, because nobody else is out there to do it for us.<BR/><BR/>Absolutely agree on your final para too, we are all guilty, the killer is in this view merely another victim. That, almost more than anything else, remains a daring and challenging line to take given the nature of his crime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-27881598759824879362009-01-08T14:29:00.000+00:002009-01-08T14:29:00.000+00:00I have just finished a post on so-called literary ...I have just finished a post on so-called <I>literary</I> and non-literary literature. He would have made a good case study - but don't wory, it's finished; I'll not try to steal your thunder. An excellent post, full of interest.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-13421754644825180542009-01-08T14:04:00.000+00:002009-01-08T14:04:00.000+00:00Wow this is inspiring stuff. I am definitely going...Wow this is inspiring stuff. I am definitely going to read that book. The bit about his mother having to have the sheets re-soled is very thoughtful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com