tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post8192601775931837558..comments2023-10-03T11:41:21.191+01:00Comments on The Truth About Lies: Making up words (part two)Jim Murdochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-21263761208184685882010-06-06T12:11:00.595+01:002010-06-06T12:11:00.595+01:00Nice to hear from you, Tammi, and a second recomme...Nice to hear from you, <b>Tammi</b>, and a second recommendation. I may well have to bite the bullet and at least stick this on my wish list.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-477741107638134602010-06-05T17:39:28.828+01:002010-06-05T17:39:28.828+01:00I just finished The Stuff of Thought this week and...I just finished <i>The Stuff of Thought</i> this week and I loved it. I enjoy everything Pinker writes, but this gave me so much to ponder. <br /><br />The issue of why so many verb synonyms are slant and can't be substituted without changing other words in the sentence had troubled me for some time. Pinker uses this issue to introduce how we use language as a metaphor for our experiences.<br /><br />He even delves into the subject of words we should have but don't, like your example of those to whom the lies were told. (My first thought was dupes but I think that is only if they believe the lies.) I don't think he found a satisfactory explanation of why it happens that the right word never becomes standard.<br /><br />At any rate, a good read for those intrigued by words and language.Tammi Kiblerhttp://writemorewritefastwritenow.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-1514482896692274592010-06-01T11:58:31.186+01:002010-06-01T11:58:31.186+01:00Just to drop back in for a moment with my own quic...Just to drop back in for a moment with my own quick review:<br /><br />"The Stuff of Thought" is wholly fascinating... if you're a linguist or interested in linguistic theory. If you're not, it can be quite dry at times and almost impenetrable on rare occasions. I'm not up on the terminology (I wouldn't know a fricative from a glottal anything) and as a consequence I got a little mazed now and then.<br /><br />The chapter on profanity, however, is worth the price of admission all by itself. IIRC, it was published online somewhere (but I'll be darned if I can recall where). If you can get ahold of the book with time to read one chapter, that's the one to go for.Scattercathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302815654553659644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-16573531754920903702010-06-01T07:53:14.950+01:002010-06-01T07:53:14.950+01:00That’s another whole topic in itself, Dick, the ex...That’s another whole topic in itself, <b>Dick</b>, the expressions we adopt from other people. Of course it really only works with people who are in on the joke. And there’s a fine line between mocking and celebrating. Carrie and I adopted an expression one of her grandkids used when someone was trying to get him to do something he didn’t want: “You’re being mean a me.”<br /><br />Ah, so you’re a dog person, Conda. You may want to steer clear of my next post: <a href="http://jim-murdoch.blogspot.com/2010/05/timoleon-vieta-come-home.html" rel="nofollow">Timoleon Vieta Come Home</a>.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-50963080306177741402010-06-01T01:03:38.468+01:002010-06-01T01:03:38.468+01:00I'm late to post here, but I just had to comme...I'm late to post here, but I just had to comment that I believe it's natural for all of to "make up" language--for example, I'm late because of my new arrival, Puck the puppy and he's puckalicious. Sorry, can't resist.Conda Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972790965426924941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-69780037810152292472010-05-31T18:13:18.952+01:002010-05-31T18:13:18.952+01:00Right up my alley, this one, Jim. I've always ...Right up my alley, this one, Jim. I've always been fascinated by patois, dialect, pidgin and straight made-up language. You pretty much cover the waterfront here with some glorious examples. <br /><br />Little to add except to note that I was at boarding school with a partially deaf boy from whose imperfect apprehension of English there derived the strangest and most beguiling of constructions, many of which had no clear provenance. For many years afterwards I would refer to those who had earned my contempt as 'miserable pilots', which was Tom's most devastating insult. From origins long since forgotten (if ever known), porridge was 'fumpy parch' and, more clearly phonetically, a bicycle was a 'bricksarple'.Dickhttp://patteran.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-84716161076796041512010-05-31T13:12:35.389+01:002010-05-31T13:12:35.389+01:00I’ve just been reading a few reviews of this book,...I’ve just been reading a few reviews of this book, <b>Scattercat</b>, and it does look like the kind of thing I’d like to read but far too long and dense for me to get the most out of it. The review in <i>The Independent</i> begins with the line, “Language is so familiar that we don't notice how strange it is,” and that’s something I’ve believed for a very long time. We don’t think about what we’re saying. It’s why I think characters like Data and Mork appeal to me so much because much of their humour is derived from a literal interpretation of what we say. <br /><br />What also puzzles me is the fact that so many people struggle with poetry when the language they use of a day-to-day basis is so figurative. I’ve written a few blogs about language and no doubt I’ll come back to it when I learn a few gems that I can rope together to make an article. In the meantime I need to get on with using these words and not think too much about what I’m actually doing. I suppose it’s like walking or any simple mechanical act, once you start to list off all the things your body is doing to make you walk you wonder how it manages to coordinate it all.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-17255965030907978202010-05-30T16:15:11.111+01:002010-05-30T16:15:11.111+01:00Just wanted to say kudos on a fascinating read. I...Just wanted to say kudos on a fascinating read. I would (and have) read entire books on language and its uses. (Have you read "The Stuff of Thought" by Steven Pinker?)<br /><br />I enjoyed this immensely.Scattercathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302815654553659644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-66861227647284715002010-05-29T17:37:17.031+01:002010-05-29T17:37:17.031+01:00I love made up words. Love the movie, Nell. My dau...I love made up words. Love the movie, <i>Nell</i>. My daughter and I go around talking 'nell' all the time. Saturday Night Live did a skit on it and we died laughing. Our favorite is, "tie-eye inna whiiiih" - (trees in in the wind).<br /><br />You've made up some pretty good words yourself, Jim.Kasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05233330248952156754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-46982427044581657602010-05-29T16:09:31.776+01:002010-05-29T16:09:31.776+01:00I think you’ve just cut to the quick, Lis. Why do ...I think you’ve just cut to the quick, <b>Lis</b>. Why do more people have a go at writing poetry than attempt prose? It’s because playing with words, enjoying the sound of words is natural. Everyone is born with it. It is prose that is artificial, a construct. That a dress has a flavour makes absolute sense to me. If it can have a volume (e.g. loud) why can’t it have a flavour? It’s what they call a synaesthetic metaphor. I mentioned it in this <a href="http://jim-murdoch.blogspot.com/2008/04/wots-this-phor-part-two.html" rel="nofollow">article</a>.<br /><br />And, <b>Peter</b>, yes, making nouns into verbs has been in vogue for a while. The one I remember is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeroisation" rel="nofollow"><i>zeroising</i></a>. I mean, seriously, what’s wrong with, “Set all the counters to zero,” instead of “Zeroise all the counters”? It sounds pretentious. And it’s only two words shorter.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-74741615242038933572010-05-29T12:51:19.728+01:002010-05-29T12:51:19.728+01:00Teaching leads me to sniglet. (Can sniglet be a v...Teaching leads me to sniglet. (Can sniglet be a verb? Wait, why would I ask the question.) This week was "rectanglize," as in, "Circle the subjet, and rectanglize the verb." I guess I could just employ "rectangle" as a verb, but it sounds too much like I'm naming the verb, like live moved from the imperative to the declarative, like "verb" in my sentence is a gerund. At least that's my excuse.<br /><br />Anyway, delighted to learn this: "I remember a competition on Radio One years ago looking for new collective nouns (Seriously, why is it a murder of crows?) and the winning entry was “a persistence of Jehovah’s Witnesses” – marvellous! It’s a bit like an ostentation of peacocks (yep, that’s a real one) but please tell me who decided on a cartload of chimpanzees, a piteousness of doves or an implausibility of gnus."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-48881749188817533482010-05-29T12:51:10.537+01:002010-05-29T12:51:10.537+01:00This is a great post, Jim, all these wonderful mad...This is a great post, Jim, all these wonderful made up words. <br /><br />I use words carelessly these days. Perhaps it's the business of aging, but I find when it comes to classifying words I like to interchange one for another. So if we are talking about the style of a dress, I might ask about its flavour, or I'll ask for the menu for a concert rather than its programme.<br /><br />We also have a tradition where names are built on rhyming efforts: Tessa becomes Tessa Wassalovski, Rosie becomes Rosel Piccolosel, Amelia Bodelia - not so original I gather and finally there's Ella Bodella.<br /><br />Thanks Jim. <br /><br />Words are fun.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-70015866243692381222010-05-29T04:00:32.894+01:002010-05-29T04:00:32.894+01:00I’m pretty sure there was a film made too, Rachel,...I’m pretty sure there was a film made too, <b>Rachel</b>, at least a made-for-TV film. I know it’s not strictly bilingualism but I wonder how many kids have a ‘language’ that they speak with their friends and one they speak with their families, a bit like a ‘telephone voice’?<br /><br />Of course, <b>Lis</b>, just don’t spill your coffee in my lap.<br /><br />And, <b>Art</b>, yes, one of my favourite words. I always surprise myself when I spell it right first time.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-35966815092988275742010-05-29T02:27:31.196+01:002010-05-29T02:27:31.196+01:00And then there's onomatopeia.And then there's onomatopeia.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-2188049290009205872010-05-28T12:55:20.776+01:002010-05-28T12:55:20.776+01:00Hi Jim
I'm half way through this fascinating ...Hi Jim<br /><br />I'm half way through this fascinating post when I scrolled down to comments. <br /><br />I'll say something more when I get to the end, but in the meantime can I lean across you please and ask Rachel if the person to whom she refers, the mother who has completed an Ma in the creation of new languages in bilingual children could please pass on more details.<br /><br />I'm interested in this topic as my two and half year old grandson is bilingual in German and English and I'd love to understand more about the process. <br /><br />I'll be back Jim when I can do justice to your post. For now I must rush.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-22696043847605758622010-05-28T10:45:45.316+01:002010-05-28T10:45:45.316+01:00I was talking about this with one of the other mum...I was talking about this with one of the other mums at my daughter's swim lesson tonight...funny...we were comparing the naming of parts from our respective regions. Hilarious. <br /><br /><br />I remember watching a documentary a long time ago about the twins with their own language. <br /><br />My younger brother and I had a large - but not a language sized - vocabulary of nonsense words for things.....I'm carrying on the tradition with my kids...makes for more sense than a lot of other things I could be teaching them!<br /><br />Oh, anyway, the point was, this lady at swimming has just written her MA thesis on the very subject of bilingualism in children and in particular the way kids whose parents speak different languages crib together a language made from the two....Rachel Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10046917627054462214noreply@blogger.com