tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post5166937704666885655..comments2023-10-03T11:41:21.191+01:00Comments on The Truth About Lies: Poetry for kids (part two)Jim Murdochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-58363013801046258052009-09-28T11:07:09.532+01:002009-09-28T11:07:09.532+01:00There's no way to tell, Dave but my guess woul...There's no way to tell, <b>Dave</b> but my guess would be there are more adults looking up 'nursery rhymes' than kids.<br /><br />When I was a kid we were always making up rhymes, often disrespectful and quite vulgar, but the thing is we were doing it. My earliest memory along those lines is running around the school singing:<br /><br /> All the girls have go the measles<br /> All the girls have go the measles<br /> All the girls have go the measles<br /> And the don't know what to do-oo-oo.<br /><br />Then we'd move onto chickepox, mumps and any other ailment we could think of; it became a challenge to keep the thing rolling without repeating ourselves.<br /><br />As for the current state of politics not being ripe for ridicule - come on! I've never known a month go by since I took any interest in the news that there wasn't something worth ribbing them about. Perhaps we're just spoiled for choice now, eh?<br /><br />And, <b>Art</b>, what's my earliest memory of word play? I think it would have to be an old <i>Fantastic Four</i> annual - a hardbacked collection for UK readers only reprinting some of the strips with stories and jokes in between - and they had the following jokes:<br /><br /> Q: What's the laziest mountain in the world?<br /> A: Mount Everest<br /><br /> Q: When is a rock not a rock?<br /> A: When it's a shamrock<br /><br /> Q: When is a bow not a bow?<br /> A: When it's a rainbow<br /><br />Terrible I know but one has to start somewhere. I think jokes are a lot like nursery rhymes - they just appear fully formed and no one knows where they come from. <br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-4397188382022899332009-09-27T14:52:04.966+01:002009-09-27T14:52:04.966+01:00in the 1970s a really terrific little book was pub...in the 1970s a really terrific little book was published called "The Space Child's Mother Goose." Basically it was nursery rhymes updated for the Space Age. Some of them were definitely brilliant. I memorized a few:<br /><br />Hark, hark, a static spark,<br />the tape is wound around,<br />so some baboon can croon his tune<br />in stereophonic sound.<br /><br /><br />I think new nursery rhymes have been written all along. Mostly they stay in the folklore, don't always get collected and published. Sometimes poets make new ones; much of Mother Goose was poet Richard Cowper, originally.<br /><br />I agree with the comments that word-play is part of kids' play in general, and an important way they learn. Puns are also word-play, and lots of kids love those, because it makes them think in sideways directions, make new connections, learn what metaphor means. Metaphor and layered meaning are sophisticated language usages that kids take to naturally; it's a magical world when you're still a child, before they've beaten it out of you.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-90917246733557767172009-09-27T11:15:16.973+01:002009-09-27T11:15:16.973+01:00As always, a wonderful post! But is it adult inter...As always, a wonderful post! But is it adult interest in new Nursery Rhymes that the report analyses, or children's interest? Or did I miss something? You are correct: from the child's point of view and from a language development point of view , it is word play that the current generation are missing out on - and the previous one has already missed out. Or so I believe. Seeing that most of the classic nursery rhymes began life as political comment to be enjoyed by adults, it could simply be that the current state of politics does not encourage such versifying... Couldn't it?Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-17583939609309014882009-09-27T10:05:14.136+01:002009-09-27T10:05:14.136+01:00Dick, thank you kindly. I've heard about those...<b>Dick</b>, thank you kindly. I've heard about those PhD-thingies. Not quite sure what I'd do with one mind. It'd just lie about the house until we decided to declutter and then it'd probably end up in a charity shop.<br /><br />Interesting point, <b>Asimov</b>, and thanks for chipping in. I like the use of the word 'feed' here because that's what it is really and, as my mother was always fond of telling me: we are what we eat. Clearly that's true metaphorically too.<br /><br />Yes, <b>Anthony</b>, change is inevitable and, if I can use the analogy I used earlier, there are times we need to have a clearout but how many times have you chucked stuff out that you went looking for a couple of years later? <br /><br />And, <b>Rachel</b>, that's quite okay, an easy mistake to make. <br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-42191059951829293552009-09-27T03:40:59.244+01:002009-09-27T03:40:59.244+01:00Jim - I did misread first time around! Thought you...Jim - I did misread first time around! Thought you had penned the first spoofs! Apologies! <br /><br />Life would be dull if it wasn't strange, and no one would want to write about it.Rachel Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10046917627054462214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-8527996876815953432009-09-26T15:37:52.113+01:002009-09-26T15:37:52.113+01:00An interesting post. I guess the new nursery rhyme...An interesting post. I guess the new nursery rhymes are such as RAP. Media changes - a great shame.anthonynorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06680944720744601697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-40057221028305751212009-09-26T12:38:04.012+01:002009-09-26T12:38:04.012+01:00Hi Jim,
It started as a nursery rhyme and ended a...Hi Jim,<br /><br />It started as a nursery rhyme and ended as a research article.In our place(India) we give importance to music at an early age. In our earlier days before T.V.s enter our homes we feed our kids by singing lullabies in our native languages. But now we feed them in front of T.V. It's too late for my kids. Let me try it with my grandson.asimovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06281299146400580083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-73317656371158145212009-09-26T11:58:30.940+01:002009-09-26T11:58:30.940+01:00As usual, Jim, a fascinating piece of research in ...As usual, Jim, a fascinating piece of research in an area supposedly well mined already. There's enough material here for a PhD!Dickhttp://patteran.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-53639412534587814652009-09-25T17:06:58.408+01:002009-09-25T17:06:58.408+01:00Glad to be of help, Anne. Thanks for your comment....Glad to be of help, <b>Anne</b>. Thanks for your comment.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-90013613194111170542009-09-25T15:41:15.059+01:002009-09-25T15:41:15.059+01:00Fascinating post, and very timely for me as I'...Fascinating post, and very timely for me as I'm thinking about nursery rhymes right now.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18308068899467100319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-43807300753958658152009-09-25T03:58:38.111+01:002009-09-25T03:58:38.111+01:00Rachel, maybe you misread the post but none of the...<b>Rachel</b>, maybe you misread the post but none of these are mine. Even when my daughter was young I'm afraid I never even attempted any kids poetry. I never even thought about it. Looking back that seems strange and I have no good answer as to why not. I did write a children's book when she was born but she was seventeen before I actually got round to reading it to her. Life is strange.<br /><br />And, <b>Kasscho</b>, I find phonemes and everything connected to the sound of language fascinating. I've tried to read about it but it all goes over my head I'm afraid. The fact is is was the <i>sound</i> of language that got me excited long before I started trying to manipulate it for myself. I seem to have lost that joy at its most basic level having allowed an obsession with meaning to take over.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-46094531713132931522009-09-25T02:07:08.562+01:002009-09-25T02:07:08.562+01:00You've found a new vocation, Jim, nursery rhym...You've found a new vocation, Jim, nursery rhyme writer! <br /><br />I've always sung rhymes about everything to my kids - often in place of speech! I like to make up rhymes about utter tosh for them, and sometimes they learn a bit of sense from a lot of fun! It has it's downside in modern society though, my daughter has a much greater vocabulary than many of her peers, so much so that, according to her teacher, her peers don't understand the words she's using and think she's making fun of them. Having higher literacy levels leads to lonliness it seems :( Unless, of course, everyone gets back into the swing of the sing!Rachel Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10046917627054462214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-37433470764842337002009-09-24T14:56:23.827+01:002009-09-24T14:56:23.827+01:00This is so interesting, especially phonemic awaren...This is so interesting, especially phonemic awareness. There's a lot of poetry for children that may not fall under strict 'nursery rhyme' criteria, but are noteworthy, nonetheless. My friend, Royce Twitchell put 'Six Naughty Poems' to music (hey, Jim - a woman composer!). I sing them as encores in recitals sometimes:#2 - Johnny went to church one day, he climbed up in the steeple. He took his shoes and stockings off, and threw them at the people. #6 - In the family drinking well, Willie pushed his sister, Nell. She's there yet, because it kilt her. Now we have to buy a filter.Kasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05233330248952156754noreply@blogger.com