tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post4439866719569849611..comments2023-10-03T11:41:21.191+01:00Comments on The Truth About Lies: Philip Larkin: some personal observationsJim Murdochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-71663062701965436602015-06-02T15:48:40.957+01:002015-06-02T15:48:40.957+01:00Yes, Roger, I suspect you’re quite right there. Of...Yes, <b>Roger</b>, I suspect you’re quite right there. Of course now he’d dead and those whose opinions of him we could trust are dying off too—assuming they’d tell us the truth anyway (old friends can be <i>very</i> protective)—I guess we’ll never know for sure. Did you happen to see the <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/01/philip-larkins-refusal-of-oxford-poetry-professor-nomination-discovered" rel="nofollow">article</a> in <i>The Guardian</i> yesterday? It seems a letter from Larkin has been discovered in a college safe in which he refuses a position of professor of poetry at Oxford. In it he writes, “I have never considered literature in the abstract since that blessed day in 1943 when I laid down my pen in the Sheldonian Theatre and sauntered out into the sunshine, a free man; anything I have written since then has either been hack journalism or cries wrung from me by what I believe Gide calls the frightful contact with hideous reality.”Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-26616197681254954182015-06-01T19:35:14.698+01:002015-06-01T19:35:14.698+01:00"But the thing is, being a writer – or more o..."But the thing is, being a writer – or more often than not, not being the writer he wanted to be – was a major preoccupation with him."<br /><br />Rather more, not being the writer he didn't want to be.<br /><br />“When I throw back my head and howl<br />People (women mostly) say<br />But you've always done what you want, <br />You always get your way<br />- A perfectly vile and foul<br />Inversion of all that's been.<br />What the old ratbags mean<br />Is I've never done what I don't.<br /><br />That's true of his writing as well as his life, I think.<br />His poem for the Humber Bridge showed Larkin could write good <i>vers d'occasion</i> if he chose and his early parodies show he could churn out routine fiction. What happened in verse and fiction, I think, was that he couldn't write what he wanted to write and refused to do anything else.Roger Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11012987757094423896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-61189350406816397592013-09-03T16:40:07.184+01:002013-09-03T16:40:07.184+01:00Oh, I think there's a big difference, Miranda....Oh, I think there's a big difference, <b>Miranda</b>. There's a resignation to the word 'bowing' that suits Larkin. As you say we'll never know but I think you might be on to something. Thanks for the comment.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-67944511975939126542013-09-01T11:43:40.830+01:002013-09-01T11:43:40.830+01:00Having just finished Andrew motion's biography...Having just finished Andrew motion's biography of Larkin, I'm wondering if the nurse who was with him when he died misheard his last words.<br />Is it possible that he actually said: "I am BOWING to the inevitable."<br />which to me makes more sense.<br /><br />Doesn't really matter I suppose. bowing is going, in a way.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00543971215787163611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-42791009356618673782012-02-25T10:37:37.471+00:002012-02-25T10:37:37.471+00:00Thanks for leaving a comment, John. Confused me a ...Thanks for leaving a comment, <b>John</b>. Confused me a bit at first because I have a novelist friend called John Baker. References to Larkin crop up not infrequently on my blog mainly nod to his poem ‘Mr Bleaney’ which had such an effect on me all those years ago. I’m glad you found the site in general worthwhile. I’m not the most knowledgeable poet out there but as I learn new stuff I like to pass it on and there is still a lot about Larkin I have yet to discover.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-49669857474379729362012-02-23T13:32:09.895+00:002012-02-23T13:32:09.895+00:00So glad I peered through the 'High Windows'...So glad I peered through the 'High Windows' of the internet to find this insightful blog. Even at 'first sight', I feel this is the prefect place to sow my "wild oats"! Please feel free to check out my blog, johnbakersblog.blogspot.com - it's not at all 'aubade'!!!John Baker's Bl0ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12901778616645931956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-18245083288237256712009-08-06T04:41:54.600+01:002009-08-06T04:41:54.600+01:00Dick, there are not very many people who could jus...<b>Dick</b>, there are not very many people who could just justice to a Larkin poem apart from the man himself. Clement Freud, perhaps, or Les Dawson.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-25855350070520307602009-08-05T23:07:57.697+01:002009-08-05T23:07:57.697+01:00Rich in detail and pithy comment as ever, Jim, but...Rich in detail and pithy comment as ever, Jim, but thanks in particular for PL reading what might actually be the 20th century's greatest meditation on love and time.Dickhttp://patteran.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-57834846433121954902009-08-05T20:01:56.110+01:002009-08-05T20:01:56.110+01:00'Worried' is not really the right word, Da...'Worried' is not really the right word, <b>Dave</b>. I'm just tired of it and yet, like an addict I'm drawn back even though it stopped being fun a long time ago. I'd like to quit – and I plan to – but I couldn't set a date for that. It's like the old Freudian 'joke' that everything boils down to sex, with me everything boils down to truth, even sex is a search for truth, the desire for it (and what that revealed), getting it (and what that revealed) and then going back for more (and what am I, an onion?) and thirty-odd years on, it's place in my life continues to reveal more. Truth is the heartburn you get after a good meal or the trapped wind. <br /><br />I don't so much feel that I'm painting the same painting over and over again so much as aspects, bits of the same painting, an ear here, a nose there, only I have no real idea what the 'big picture' looks like. Probably the most important thing I learned about in recent years was the notion of fuzzy logic. I had always been led to believe that truth was something sharp and in focus whereas for all of us it's really something out of focus; if we squint then it gets a bit clearer but it's always just a bit blurry around the edges.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-51561935231312782352009-08-05T14:12:31.091+01:002009-08-05T14:12:31.091+01:00Do I detect from what you say that it worries you ...Do I detect from what you say that it worries you a tad that you have this compulsion (probably not the right word: idée fixe?)to write about truth. It is not necessarily a minus, as I'm sure you know many greats painted the same picture or wrote the same poem throughout a greater part of their oeuvre.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-54158729256100256472009-08-05T03:53:12.493+01:002009-08-05T03:53:12.493+01:00I read an interview once with someone who worked f...I read an interview once with someone who worked for Larkin and his description of him as a boss was quite Draconian, very unapproachable. He wasn't a very sociable person part of which resulted from a blinkered view of life. So, there were those who he saw eye to eye with like Amis and Thatcher and then there were the rest of us.<br /><br />In his <i>Paris Review</i> interview he's asked about Borges and I'm not sure if he's being flippant or deadly serious in his response (I suspect the latter):<br /><br /><b>INTERVIEWER</b><br />Is Jorge Luis Borges the only other contemporary poet of note who is also a librarian, by the way? Are you aware of any others?<br /><br /><b>LARKIN</b><br />Who is Jorge Luis Borges? The writer-librarian I like is Archibald MacLeish.<br /><br />As for the "messed up bastard" theory I'm probably not well suited to comment being a long-standing messed up bastard myself. Personally I can't imagine anyone not being a messed up bastard even Debussy. I certainly don't think being a messed up bastard is a hindrance. As far as the writing profession goes it's probably a boon.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-84395364526043373792009-08-04T22:13:00.289+01:002009-08-04T22:13:00.289+01:00I've got Larkin's "Required Writing&q...I've got Larkin's "Required Writing" book of reviews and essays. It's terrific reading although I think his prejudice against all kinds of jazz that came after bebop was problematic to the point of keeping Larkin from appreciating jazz in general. He was fixated on one kind of jazz, and hated all others.<br /><br />I think I have a Selected Poems here, too, but I need to pick up the Collected when I find it. It would be interesting to go through it all, at this point, which I haven't done before. I've always liked some of his work, but have had problems liking all of it. And I find it hard to like him, as a person. If I can be permitted an unfair comparison, another famous librarian-writer, Borges, was someone I always felt I could sit down and have a fascinating and fun conversation with. I always rather felt that wasn't ever going to be possible with Larkin, at least not for me.<br /><br />The theory of "you have to big messed up or a bastard to be a great artist" is one I do not subscribe to. I think it's BS, frankly. It maintains the Romantic myth of the hero-artist by making him or her into an anti-hero-artist, but it doesn't really mean anything. Wagner was a horrible person; Debussy by most accounts was a wonderful person; yet they both wrote great, masterful music. So there's no correlation between art that someone makes, and their character. There never has been, and it's foolish to think there is. (IMHO.)Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-70225602055086508892009-08-04T08:58:52.811+01:002009-08-04T08:58:52.811+01:00Thanks, Jim, I like your poem more than your moral...Thanks, Jim, I like your poem more than your morals! I'll never tire of snow. Going to call you 'Truth' Murdoch now! But of course there is no one definition of snow, just as each flake is unique, that's the beauty of it. And it is as subjective as truth.Rachel Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10046917627054462214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-4167682487884030512009-08-04T07:14:53.770+01:002009-08-04T07:14:53.770+01:00Tony, thanks for considering me but I've decid...<b>Tony</b>, thanks for considering me but I've decided to opt out on awards like this, the kind where you're expected to pass the thing onto a load of sites you deem worthy. Like I said though, it's nice to be thought about.<br /><br />And, <b>Rachel</b>, perhaps growing up in Scotland I find it hard to romanticise snow. I can still remember my childhood trudging through the stuff in my wellies my feet like blocks of ice. Brrrrr. I had a look and I can only find one snow poem in my collection which you may or may not appreciate but here it is:<br /><br /><br /> <b>The Truth Behind All Poems</b><br /><br /><br /> This was <br /> a blank sheet<br /> of paper before<br /> I did this to it.<br /><br /> Footprints <br /> in the snow<br /> mean next to nothing.<br /> Learn to read between <br /><br /> the lines.<br /> Kids get it.<br /> They know exactly<br /> what to do when they<br /><br /> gaze through <br /> that window:<br /> there’s no place for<br /> perfection in an<br /><br /> imperfect world.<br /><br /><br /> Saturday, 16 July 2005<br /> Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-46466451237215859842009-08-03T23:22:38.333+01:002009-08-03T23:22:38.333+01:00Snow is beauty and cruelty at its most sublime. I ...Snow is beauty and cruelty at its most sublime. I love the whole of that poem, as a deconstructionist, 'I have spent my lifetime trying to forget' (paraphrasing from memory here - before you go get your book and tell me I misquoted!)is a dream sentence to read. I adore Larkin's poems. It's like you and I, Jim, the chances of us 'chatting', were it not for poetry or prose, would be slim indeed.Rachel Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10046917627054462214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-58471201646901782492009-08-03T19:46:34.781+01:002009-08-03T19:46:34.781+01:00come and collect an award on my blog!come and collect an award on my blog!tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746435400444226665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-81354086257948477522009-08-03T16:21:21.250+01:002009-08-03T16:21:21.250+01:00Scattercat, I don't think it's a prerequis...<b>Scattercat</b>, I don't think it's a prerequisite but I've always found it a great help. I really don't work well with positive emotions and I don't think that many poets do. What you need is a good breakup or your cat to die. I'd say just watch the news to bring you down but artificial highs and lows beget artificial poems in my experience. You've gotta feel the pain.<br /><br /><b>Rachel</b>, what is it with you and snow? I think what's so great about that line is what it follows. <a href="http://bestuff.com/stuff/the-winter-palace-philip-larkin" rel="nofollow">'The Winter Palace'</a> really isn't that poetic up till that point, just an old guy whinging away about getting on, and then we have this wonderful image right at the end. Brilliant.<br /><br />What gets me, <b>Dave</b>, is that I really thought by my age that I would have worked out most of the things that were bugging me as a kid. It's really a lot to do with indoctrination, you are told to see the world a certain way and when you get older and rip the rose-tined specs off you realise that you've got rose-tinted eyes, so what do you do? Pluck 'em out? I am always going to be preoccupied with issues of meaning and truth. Other things may well distract me but you have no idea how many times I get an opening line for a poem with the word 'truth' in it.<br /><br />And, <b>McGuire</b>, yes, I have real issues with indoctrination. Any kind, not simply religious. Bigotry was rampant when I grew up. Not just at home but in the schoolyard as well. I think that's why <i>Nineteen Eighty-Four</i> had such an effect on me when I first read it. So let's be clear. I don't <i>think</i> that homosexuality is wrong (intellectually I'm quite comfortable with it – I just don't want to do it but then I don't want to go white water rafting either) but I have to resist a <i>feeling</i> that it is wrong. That goes beyond what I was taught growing up. One can reject certain teachings but not feeling guilty about it afterwards is another thing entirely. <br /><br />If I can shift this away from the emotive issue of sexual preference and talk about smoking and drinking both of which I have done if only as an outward demonstration of my inner rebelliousness. I could do both but I knew what I was going was wrong so my enjoyment was tainted. I tried swearing too but it's really not me. I sometimes get my characters to swear on my behalf. <br /><br />You used the word 'natural' but really it's 'nurture' we're talking about here. My natural development was interfered with. Decisions were made on my behalf but at least my parents didn't call me Lenin as one young lad's mum and dad did who were fervent Communists; there's always someone worse off than you.Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-10184917558343086122009-08-03T14:35:50.266+01:002009-08-03T14:35:50.266+01:00I have Larkins 'High Windows' I really enj...I have Larkins 'High Windows' I really enjoy its melancholic morbidity and sterile seriousness and the moments of beauty he captures so plainly and yet eloquent. <br /><br />I know all about his 'real' life, he was a miserable git, a thrifty misanthrope who hated children and most other things in some measure. A lone drunk, almost an ascetic; there is something cruel in his misery and out look but this is only natural when you consider how hard the path of life and death can be. <br /><br />Larkin has a kind of beauty designation with his attitude towarss life; he can't stand it and yet he does. Like us all. As for his Tory background and mean-spiritedness, they sing through all his poetry and I they don't make me dislike him. We are all horribly biased as human beings. We all have disgusting prejudices of our own liking.<br /><br />I didn't realise you felt homosexuality to be 'wrong' (i.e. morally wrong.) That will be your 'Christian' up bringing. I mean, you're not a religious man, but we all still carry to baggage of that kind of 'moralising'. Also, being heterosexual, it's natural to feel uncomfortable around it. <br /><br />Sexuality is as flawed as any gene pool perhaps. Sexual liberation did not hasten in universal love, but perhaps it made some forms of love less controversial. <br /><br />I have a hard time with sexuality, I've had relationships with men and women, and quite frankly, I am quite happy with it. It doesn't baffle me. It doesn't make me hate or believe that heterosexuals are incomplete or missing something. <br /><br />Anyway, I might go re-read some Larkin, it has been a while. Speak soon.McGuirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095242258892600138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-56481004756916125442009-08-03T14:19:01.489+01:002009-08-03T14:19:01.489+01:00That rang a few bells for me on the personal level...That rang a few bells for me on the personal level, Jim. The business of returning to old subjects because we are nor satisfied with what we said before and poems being private things on public view. <br /><br />As regards separating the man from the work, I think you almost always have to do that. I know the one can throw light on the other, but the light does not always reveal. It can fog. In Larkin's case I am not sure. It is certainly true that some right bastards have written beautiful verse. A very thought-provoking post about a poet I have never been able to make up my mind about!Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-74719965644657704912009-08-03T10:07:27.724+01:002009-08-03T10:07:27.724+01:00I'm with the Russian Formalists on poetry read...I'm with the Russian Formalists on poetry reading. I adore Larkins poetry, though dislike what I know of the man behind them (I feel a little like this with Orwell, too). My favourite Larkin line is: 'my mind will fold in on itself; like fields; like snow.'Rachel Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10046917627054462214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-23066557978179895262009-08-03T07:45:49.554+01:002009-08-03T07:45:49.554+01:00D'you suppose it's necessary to be a "...D'you suppose it's necessary to be a "miserable git" to be any shakes as a writer? I've personally always worried that I'm far too generally content and lacking in notable traumas to have any really good wells of rage, anger, and pain from which to draw Art. (And I've noticed that my protagonists tend towards the bland and agreeable, surrounded by more colorful and vibrant characters. Curse this reverse-reverse psychoanalysis via writing samples!)Scattercathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302815654553659644noreply@blogger.com