tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post4019809779903031999..comments2023-10-03T11:41:21.191+01:00Comments on The Truth About Lies: The Road: the novel, the critics and the filmJim Murdochhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-80895142395679629172012-08-27T03:38:09.286+01:002012-08-27T03:38:09.286+01:00I'm completely in Art's camp on this one. ...I'm completely in Art's camp on this one. I read it avidly enough, but certain artists and their cheering sections get under my skin and make my responses over the top. (And I mean you, Philip Roth!) Even when I see some of the virtues, I still feel cranky. I used to teach Sci-Fi for awhile, so I did have the problem not with lack of originality, but the awareness that this had been done so much better elsewhere. (Though your question about is it a book about a man and his son that just happens to be in a wasteland gives me pause.) Unlike your response, I hated the ending. MC Carthy wants to assert some kind of mystical metaphoric insight that doesn't grow out of the rest of the book. Is this a tale of a weary old testament god dragging his son toward incarnation? "We have been waiting for you" indeed.<br /><br />But it was the details that drove me crazy, especially the grocery cart. You can't even push a grocery cart to your car in the grocery parking lot when it's slushy, let alone cross country. It was as if he began this worthy existential concept--why do humans continue to struggle in the face of death and meaninglessness--but then couldn't put in the time to think it through. Wouldn't it be cool if the grove of trees just spontaneously burst into flame? Why not? Burning bush deconstructed.<br /><br />But thanks to you and all your respondents for making me guiltily turn aside from my unreasonable response to a book I read with enjoyment, but but then turned against in retrospect. I may even have to go back and reread it. Nah, but maybe I'll reread THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA.Weorchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16646681750705277009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-2820305781334470672010-04-17T11:27:05.793+01:002010-04-17T11:27:05.793+01:00Yes, Jennifer, I think I’m starting to see that th...Yes, <b>Jennifer</b>, I think I’m starting to see that those people who really connect with this book are those who can see themselves there. That said I never spent any time while I was reading the book imagining me dragging my daughter around a post apocalyptic Scotland probably because she’s a grown woman herself now. Had it been the story of a woman dragging her old da around I might have connected with that a bit more. Maybe I simply don’t engage with the text in the way some people do. I enjoy it for what it is but from a safe distance, always the observer.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-77621730128162695862010-04-16T14:39:41.640+01:002010-04-16T14:39:41.640+01:00I've skipped the movie review here (perhaps so...I've skipped the movie review here (perhaps someday I'll see it, if I can stomach it), but really enjoyed your book review with some background on McCarthy that helped flesh it out for me. Interesting comparisons to Beckett, too.<br /><br />I tried to read this book. It didn't work as bedtime reading for me, and while I can appreciate the language and want to attempt it again someday (like maybe after my boy is an adult), it truly unsettled my sleep. Outside of the cannibalism and the cold, it was the difficulty of finding food that really struck me. That and something about it felt very possible. <br /><br />Reading it for the style and the language, which is deceptively simple, was an education, too, at least for as long as I lasted. His points on not needing quotation marks, on knowing from the writing who is speaking, is something to think about.jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07959874504681715396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-44401760778632951272010-04-13T01:02:34.893+01:002010-04-13T01:02:34.893+01:00I tend to agree with you, Skip. If I hadn't al...I tend to agree with you, <b>Skip</b>. If I hadn't already got a copy of the book I would have been tempted to check it out for myself purely on the basis of the radically different (and passionate) views held. A book like that <i>has</i> to have something. I'm glad I read it. I'd read him again.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-19037867453307981412010-04-12T01:28:49.243+01:002010-04-12T01:28:49.243+01:00I applaud the thoroughness of the review; I loved ...I applaud the thoroughness of the review; I loved the book but have been waiting on the movie. I've recommended The Road to at least a dozen people, most of whom liked it. The thing I noted in all of the reactions, though, was that everyone described it as an 'experience,' more than a book. Not sure about another book where people have had such a visceral response. As far as I'm concerned, this warrants a read just to have a singular kind of reading experience.Skiphttp://thereadingape.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-82727997670546066382010-04-08T13:07:35.089+01:002010-04-08T13:07:35.089+01:00Size is irrelevant - it's So worth the effort!...Size is irrelevant - it's So worth the effort! It's one of those novels that really is about EVERYTHING (well, except possibly football...I haven't come across a football reference yet).<br />xRachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-10844114684553367842010-04-07T21:27:15.573+01:002010-04-07T21:27:15.573+01:00Thank you for that, Badger. I’m a fan of a few ‘un...Thank you for that, <b>Badger</b>. I’m a fan of a few ‘unreadable’ writers myself.<br /><br />And, <b>Rachel</b>, I seem to remember John Baker talking about <i>The Children's Book</i> but 624 pages is a <i>big</i> book. I’d love to say I’d get round to it but I could read three books for that one. I’ve just received a review copy that’s 450 pages and I’m tired just holding it.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-47640565804230252892010-04-07T19:54:43.761+01:002010-04-07T19:54:43.761+01:00A good thorough post. I wasn't really intendin...A good thorough post. I wasn't really intending to read the book but I might give it a go now. I am reading A.S.Byatt's 'The Children's Book' just now. It is fantastic - get to it!<br />xRachel Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11803852725693518924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-39674912869341977592010-04-07T17:28:43.461+01:002010-04-07T17:28:43.461+01:00I've read this book five times. In fact, I...I've read this book five times. In fact, I've read all of McCarthy's work, and most of them several times. Your review is outstanding. It is refreshing to find such an in depth review of what many would consider such a dismal work. Most of the people I know find McCarthy unreadable. I don't have much to say to them. The gap is nearly unbridgeable. His work stands as some of the best, ever.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938379025774754317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-86005727389752024992010-04-07T15:48:53.348+01:002010-04-07T15:48:53.348+01:00Then leave it, Elisabeth. As has been pointed out ...Then leave it, <b>Elisabeth</b>. As has been pointed out in the comments the book is not so outstanding that you should drop everything and rush out and buy a copy. If you run across a cheap one somewhere along the lines you'll hopefully remember what's been said and, depending on your mood, you'll buy it or not and then once you've bought it, if you're anything like me, it'll lie around for a year or two before you discover it and go, "You know what, I've been meaning to see what all the fuss was about."<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-407193448350407872010-04-07T09:33:00.260+01:002010-04-07T09:33:00.260+01:00I want to read The Road, Jim, but I don't thin...I want to read The Road, Jim, but I don't think I can bring myself to - partly all the hype, partly the despair, partly my present stare of mind which is making everything seem difficult.<br /><br />Thanks, Jim.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-76357497052639597182010-04-06T16:34:57.097+01:002010-04-06T16:34:57.097+01:00Glad to be of assistance, Milo. I can't really...Glad to be of assistance, <b>Milo</b>. I can't really imagine going to the cinema to watch a film like this. In fact there's something about sitting in your cosy home surrounded by your loved ones and treasured possessions that's <i>so</i> right.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-32743143613286180802010-04-06T16:07:39.320+01:002010-04-06T16:07:39.320+01:00Loved the book; read it in two days (which is fast...Loved the book; read it in two days (which is fast for me). Have been wary about the movie, though, and never caught it while in the theaters. But after reading your post, I'm more likely to rent the DVD in a few months.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-58069435653728057172010-04-06T13:02:05.635+01:002010-04-06T13:02:05.635+01:00At least you finally managed to get a comment up, ...At least you finally managed to get a comment up, <b>Dave</b>. There’s one site I visit regularly where it tells me that every comment I make is over 5000 characters no matter how long it is and I have to send e-mails which I’m fine with but the nice thing about comments is that you get to publicly show your support.<br /><br />As for <i>The Road</i> I think that’s a fair position to be in. And there are plenty of books out there where opinions are polarised. That’s why I decided to present the pros and cons here because I <i>can</i> see why some people would absolutely hate this book. Some of those people cited Beckett as an example – “It’s as bad as reading Beckett!” – and you know what I think of Beckett. But he’s another one where people tend to back into one of two corners.<br /><br />The bottom line is that this isn’t a bad book. It’s just been overhyped. I remember going to see Tim Burton’s <i>Batman</i> after years of reading every scrap of information I could find about it. No film could possibly live up to my expectations which is why I tend to skim reviews of things I have a real interest in. The good thing about a book like this is that it’s been out a while and there’ll be plenty of cheap copies kicking around. <br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-18869188996753528312010-04-06T11:13:53.606+01:002010-04-06T11:13:53.606+01:00Hi Jim
This is my umpteenth attempt to leave a co...Hi Jim<br />This is my umpteenth attempt to leave a comment. Each time I clicked on the link I got a page of scribble suggesting that I'd entered the wrong address!<br /><br />Ah, well, now to business: You don't make it easy for us, do you? I don't know either the book or the film. I began reading your post and thought it might be my sort of book, then thought definitely not and finally that I'd have to read it to find out for myself. Reading the other comments, now that I can, hasn't taken me any further, so I guess that's it: I'll have to read the book. One thing I will say: I thoroughly enjoyed reading the post.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-41487635329279370662010-04-06T01:36:14.601+01:002010-04-06T01:36:14.601+01:00A strange thing to be made to watch at school I wo...A strange thing to be made to watch at school I would have thought, <b>McGuire</b>. Makes me feel old.<br /><br />Tell me about it, <b>Art</b>. I read up as much as I have time for on every book I review. Especially the ones where I’m new to the author. I quite like coming in without any baggage as was the case here. It helps me judge the book on its own merits and not by comparison to the author’s previous efforts. But my tastes are my tastes and no one is going to like everything I like. The hardest thing is reviewing a book I’ve not been crazy about but that I know will be popular. I think I’d go crazy if I only had to review books I was sent. <br /><br />My last thought about this book is one of perspective: is it a post-apocalyptic novel which just happens to feature a father and son or is it a novel about a father and his son that just happens to be set after an apocalypse? I think those who read the book as the latter are the ones who are more likely to be taken with it. It’s a theory anyway.<br /><br />And, <b>Dick</b>, it’s been years since I read <i>A Canticle for Leibowitz</i>. I remember how it starts but that’s about it. I think I may stick that back on my to-be-read shelf but don’t hold your breath.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-80462948777763092482010-04-05T21:55:41.427+01:002010-04-05T21:55:41.427+01:00As a great fan of the post-apocalyptic novel, I wo...As a great fan of the post-apocalyptic novel, I would agree with Art Durkee that 'A Canticle for Leibowitz' is a fair contender for best in genre. Then we part company; I thought that 'The Road' was superb. Bleak, yes; despairing, no. It's about love, mutual sustenance and hope.Dickhttp://patteran.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-22679993807091042672010-04-05T21:46:38.172+01:002010-04-05T21:46:38.172+01:00McG: Or you could have sent them to see "What...McG: Or you could have sent them to see "What Dreams May Come" or "The Happening." Both better choices.<br /><br />Jim, I mainly mentioned how unoriginal "The Road" is because so much of the critical response to it WAS that they thought it was original. They were completely wrong and too ignorant to know it; and I'm talking about reviewers and critics who should have known better, of the ilk of James Woods and other writers from that supposedly higher tier of criticism and reviewing. The responses from those folks was doubly irritating precisely because it WAS so ignorant. If I overreact to their over-praising of its originality, it's to make a point. Which I know you knew.<br /><br />Of course people should read it and make up their own minds!<br /><br />But on the other hand, isn't the reviewer's job to help them do that? To point them towards what they might like? <br /><br />I'm perfectly happy to have many different writers handle the same themes. They each bring their own stamp to it. The more the merrier.<br /><br />But if you put up "The Road" next next to many other books in the sub-genre of post-apocalyptic fiction, it fares even worse. Purely as a matter of literary writing, not to mention treatment of the subject. Again, what was over-praised as brilliantly original just shows how ignorant most of those critics were.<br /><br />I freely admit that the critical response to the book was doubly infuriating—and not only to me, but to other readers and reviewers—because, again, it showed a lot of ignorance of the sub-genre, its history, and the books in the sub-genre that are better writing. That's all.<br /><br />What would be wonderful to see is a completely different take on the whole sub-genre, that didn't use such stock plot twists, stock characters, and predictable outcomes. Now THAT would be worth reading.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-27436533277772448802010-04-05T19:17:07.316+01:002010-04-05T19:17:07.316+01:00Seen When the wind blows, it's animation, sure...Seen When the wind blows, it's animation, sure my parents have seen it. We were made to watch it in High School. Depressing little film. Watching two old people deteriorate. Jesus. Catholic guilt and nuclear war...such a healthy upbringing.McGuirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095242258892600138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-6178225534209408732010-04-05T18:24:50.336+01:002010-04-05T18:24:50.336+01:00I wouldn’t call it an exciting read, Ann, that not...I wouldn’t call it an exciting read, <b>Ann</b>, that not really the word for this book. Even the film is not exciting. It has it action sequences but it doesn’t make too much of them. They’re chased, they escape; other people are chased and don’t escape. That’s why I mentioned <i>not</i> being taken in by the fast editing of the trailer because this is not that kind of story. I would have thought that the hype is beginning to fade now. The book’s been out for years and the film’s now on DVD. It’ll be interesting to see if it’s being called a classic in ten years time or if it has slipped into obscurity.<br /><br />I’ve done my best to be fair to both the book and the film, <b>Kass</b>. If you do decide to investigate them further I do hope you’re not disappointed. I’ve not heard of <i>Reading Lolita in Tehran</i> but I have just read a book written in a kind of twin speak which I’m busy reviewing at the moment. Although the non-standard punctuation didn’t bother me I think more is to be gained from punctuating properly. That’s the key verb here – gained – I can’t see what is <i>gained</i> from what he does. <br /><br />I think you’re the perfect audience for this book, <b>Ken</b>. I actually wonder if the book would have been different had it been a mother and a daughter. And I would watch the DVD. If only as a writer comparing text to script. I always find that fascinating, what they take out, what they leave in and, more importantly, what they feel they need to add. I could only see one addition and that was some of the details in the flashbacks. I personally didn’t need them but they are so short it’s not worth quibbling about them. <br /><br />I see where you’re coming from, <b>Art</b>. I knew you weren’t crazy about this book from your blog although to be fair I only skimmed your post because I knew I was going to read the book and I was steering clear of commentaries and critiques. If anything knowing that it had got under your skin only encouraged me to read it to see why. Of course it’s derivative. It’s hard to write about anything these days without covering ground that other people have. I certainly wouldn’t rank it as one of the greatest books ever written or anything OTT like that but I did enjoy it for what it was. Just because other people have written about something shouldn’t stop us trying to add our tuppenceworth. Even if we know we’re not going to write a classic or a masterpiece. I think this book <i>has</i> something worthwhile to say. To the right reader. <br /><br />And, <b>McGuire</b>, if I were going to send my parents to see a post apocalyptic film it would be <i>When the Wind Blows</i> based on the Raymond Briggs’ graphic novel about an old couple after a nuclear attack on the UK. As for the end of the film, as I say in my review, they fiddle with it, not a lot but enough to spoil it for me. The ending of the book is better.<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-53682136933174829372010-04-05T17:16:14.608+01:002010-04-05T17:16:14.608+01:00I have had the book since my birthdday last year (...I have had the book since my birthdday last year (Dec 3rd, so you know for next time, ha) and to be honest I have avoided reading it. I avoid 'block buster' books because I can't stand the hype. <br /><br />I was going to read it but alas I downloaded the film illegally and watched it first, now it will infect my reading, but I'm not so concerned. The film was morbid, to the point of assisted suicide, but I quite liked it. I'm a cynical optimist afterall. I sent my parents to watch it actually...they were devastated, I didn't realise how bad it was until they came back. Oops.<br /><br />Curious film though. Secretly, I dream for civil war, all out chaos, the end of civilisation. Secretly, now publially, I want to be trying to survive in abominable conditions. <br /><br />The best part in the film was the end scene, I could have cried, the boy asks, after some touching dialogue: <br /><br />'Are you carrying the fire?'<br /><br />Well....are you? <br /><br />I am.McGuirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095242258892600138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-47630864483427029222010-04-05T16:27:24.673+01:002010-04-05T16:27:24.673+01:00This is one of the most over-praised novels of the...This is one of the most over-praised novels of the past decade, if not THE most over-praised. Nothing about it is original, not one single thing that most critics lauded.<br /><br />In every case, those critics who thought this was new and original are the same critics who glare down their noses at speculative fiction. Of course, we all know this is a long-standing prejudice that literary fine-art literature has held against so-called genre fiction, which often contains as much or better great writing, and certainly just as much exploratory stylistic invention.<br /><br />For example:<br /><br />Non-standard punctuation and non-normative syntax? Russell Hoban, "Riddley Walker." Joanna Russ, "We Who Are About To." And several works by Samuel R. Delany, and a few stories by James Tiptree.<br /><br />Post-apocalyptic fiction? This is a very very old genre. Probably the best SF novel on the topic remains Walter Miller's "A Canticle for Liebowitz," but I could list probably a hundred novels, and a few hundred more short stories, given enough time and space.<br /><br />Actually, the best novel I've ever read on apocalyptic fiction is Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean's graphic novel, "Signal to Noise," which is about apokatastasis rather than apocalypse. It also contains a critique of apocalypse within its pages, in the musings of the lead character.<br /><br />Frank Wilson, in reviewing this novel, coined the phrase "the pornography of despair," which I think is a great coinage. (Another recent novel that comes to mind along these lines is LeCarre's "The Constant Gardener.") <br /><br />I have to say, I think McCarthy in almost every novel of his relishes killing his characters and abusing his readers. There is something sado-masochistic about it. (Oh look, maybe this character will survive and overcome his challenges after all! .... nope, he's dead.) Of the many writerly things that McCarthy is over-praised for, the one thing that does have some merit is his ability to turn a lovely phrase, to describe beautifully, and to come up with startling similes. But there is nothing remotely original about the plot, situations, or characters in "The Road."<br /><br />There IS a lot of apocalyptic fiction (and movies) these days, isn't there? One doesn't really need to wonder why. The world is in a time of scary transition, with many things that could go wrong at any moment dominating the media—and the media loves to report disaster, another form of pornography. So we live in dangerous times. Such times in history have always produced a surge of apocalyptic literature and entertainment. It only seems more crazy and intense, perhaps, because we're living through it right now.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-27552679410172745282010-04-05T15:29:12.907+01:002010-04-05T15:29:12.907+01:00Having lived with it for a little time now, I can ...Having lived with it for a little time now, I can safely declare 'The Road' as being one of my favorite books. I read it as a Dad of about the same age as the character in the book, with a son who was about the same as the boy in the book. It moved and troubled me in ways that went beyond the story being told.<br /><br />I haven't seen the film and I have been reluctant to do so but you have given me encouragement so I will have it on DVD in my darkened living room some night.Ken Armstronghttp://kenwriting.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-1282101894115142442010-04-05T15:24:16.237+01:002010-04-05T15:24:16.237+01:00This was a great review and it sounds like a book ...This was a great review and it sounds like a book I want to read. I'm glad to hear you have a touchstone. Beckett is a good one. <br /><br />The use of non-standard punctuation can be jolting at first, as it was in Nafisi's <i>Reading Lolita in Tehran</i>, but it does provide a different kind of expression or cadence.<br /><br />Sounds like a movie I will want to rent too.Kasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05233330248952156754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6327348657265652781.post-8593157165674806012010-04-05T14:51:37.858+01:002010-04-05T14:51:37.858+01:00I haven't read the book. I'm not sure I wi...I haven't read the book. I'm not sure I will. I like the premise behind it and think it would be an exciting read but I need to be in the right frame of mind and not sure I can be... not now anyways. <br /><br />What a wonderful review. When the hype is over, people will give your review a great deal of consideration because of it's scope.<br /><br />annAnn Elle Altmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02192162600274764681noreply@blogger.com